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Trever Leingod

Trever Leingod

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PostSubject: Re: Electric Judgment   Electric Judgment - Page 3 Icon_minitimeFri Dec 19, 2008 1:25 pm

Mark Kenobi wrote:
Redack wrote:
Meh some Force Powers are uber, deal with it... The more rules you add, the less fun the RP will be... Only add restrictions and rules when there is a need to do so, such as after someone does something everyone else considers unfair or whatever...

As for games, there is a very good reason for thsoe things... Graphics bugs (the lightning out of the chest), balance purposes (how boring would it be if you could just wipe out every enemy within seconds, or the other way around)... The powers from the games should be allowed as long as they are used fairly Razz

I suppose I understand with the bugs and all that, and the balancing between game and reality too. I actually am fine with most of the powers available on this forum.But sometimes people try to put that into an RP into an unrealistic sort of way.

For instance, if someone wanted to be a smarty pants, they could use that Dooku example as a "canon" ability and try to emit lightning from their chest in an RP (despite the fact that as you said and I think too, it's a graphic flaw). Razz

Kira's personal doctrine as Mod that Force Lightning was fatal on contact, for instance, was outrageous. Force Lightning usually takes forever to kill someone, even at high intensities. I don't think there was a single book, let alone movie, when Force Lightning had such power. There were numerous complaints to Kira's doctrine on this, especially since it seemed uncanon and it was not written in the rules. Just another example of why Kira was not the best Mod and why we need a new one when GT returns.

Electric Judgment should be allowed, and we need a mod when GT returns. Got it. Agree. Very Happy

She definitely was off there. Back when Force Orb was still allowed (they are now considered uncanon), some Jedi was judged "dead" for "ignoring the Orbs" even though he fairly evaded it, and the Sith who made the Orbs specified they were made to stun. Even if the Jedi dude got hit with the Orbs, he would not have died - the Sith never made a follow-up attack to kill after he was stunned. Rolling Eyes

Just another example of an iffy call. scratch


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PostSubject: Re: Electric Judgment   Electric Judgment - Page 3 Icon_minitimeFri Dec 19, 2008 1:42 pm

I'd agree with you about the Lightning thing but I don't think that the blame should be laid at Kira's feet. By the time I got here it was a long-held precedent that Lightning basically could kill on contact. Kira wasn't making up her own rules, she was upholding forum precedent. Perhaps it wasn't a precedent that should have been set in the first case, but it was hardly Kira's invention.

No idea what you are talking about with the Force Orbs. But the orbs of destruction here on J/S have never been all that powerful--my understanding of them is that they were made to explode upon contact (though some people later said this included mental pressure), but they were relatively easy to evade, so I wouldn't call them overpowered. scratch
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Trever Leingod

Trever Leingod

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PostSubject: Re: Electric Judgment   Electric Judgment - Page 3 Icon_minitimeFri Dec 19, 2008 3:35 pm

No, it was a personal precedent. Neutral I don't think anyone else saw lightning like that - most of the time someone asked Kira to make a call, it was for a completely different reason, but somehow it was the Lightning slip-up how some died. Most of the forum actually objected to it, hence why it was eventually overturned after enough complaining.

Kira herself said she based this "doctrine" on ONE specific game - Jedi Outcast I believe. Rolling Eyes It was definitely overpowered. Trust me, I've been around since 2002 (on and off to some degree) - I've watched for these things. Somebody finally made limits, distances and precise descriptions for Force Lightning after people called for more specific rules with Kira's consent, after which Lightning was reverted to its appropriate power limitation. If it wasn't Kira's precedent to begin with, she was still to blame for letting it become an uncanon and unwritten rule (a quasi-rule, so to say) well after people liked it that way.

I didn't say Force Orb was overpowered, I just said she made a faulty call with that one match. The Sith specified that the Orbs were only intended to stun - yet Kira called that these Orbs killed his Jedi opponent, which was completely contradictory to what the Sith intended in his roleplay post. Suspect


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PostSubject: Re: Electric Judgment   Electric Judgment - Page 3 Icon_minitimeSat Dec 20, 2008 2:51 pm

Forgive me, but you said you've been here "on and off" since 2002. Well, I haven't been here that long, but unless you were here a significant amount of time while I was here the first time (around summer 2004-2005), I think I would probably have a better gauge of the forum than you would at that particular point in time, since I was around pretty much every day. At that point, there were no real disputes about Force Lightning's power--just about everyone (not just Kira) just accepted it as a legal means to kill someone. That was long before Kira became a mod, back during DM and Kain's time. Like it or not, it's not just Kira's fault that Lightning became overpowered (though she probably had a hand in it; I'm not denying that). It was an unwritten rule because at that time most of the forum liked it that way. Jedi powers were limited for the same reasons--most of the forum found them overpowered. Heck, back then I accepted both doctrines, because honestly it's a logical step to believe that Lightning could, if given enough power, kill instantly (because we already knew, from Ep. 6, that it could kill). Now of course I know that that would probably require a lot of energy, and would make lightning overpowered, but the fact remains that it was generally accepted during the period in which Kira was Dark Lord. It was only natural for her to carry that opinion over when she became a mod.

No, you didn't say Orb was overpowered, Vegito did earlier in the post. I was actually talking about Force Destruction, which to the best of my knowledge is still legal. I'm not going to debate you on the one match you are talking about because 1. I wasn't there and haven't seen the post in question and 2. I have only heard one side of the issue. Your description does seem a little strange but I can't make a call like that without seeing the post.
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Richter Belmont

Richter Belmont

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PostSubject: Re: Electric Judgment   Electric Judgment - Page 3 Icon_minitimeSun Dec 21, 2008 4:33 pm

I think I know what Wind is talking about. I was saw this kind of thing happen. Tis true without a doubt. I do find it Kira's fault that Lightning became overpowering on a large scale. There was a fight between a Sith and a Jedi, and the Sith used a small bolt of Force lightning (not concentrated to kill and not enough time given to it) and she ruled it was a hit and that the Jedi died of it, even though no detail was given on how powerful it was supposed to be. Now, it is really cheap to let someone get killed based on lack of detail from the other. I'm sorry, but it is true what Wind said. Kira did make some bad mod decisions in her time. I know that thou agrees on that concentrated lightning can kill, and I agree too, but that wasn't the case here at all. At the very least, twas Kira's fault for letting it get to that point on not do anything to fix it, precedent or not. There is a rule for mods in that there should not be unwritten rules or rules that are ambigious or seemingly biased. It made it difficult for a Jedi to fight a Sith. In any case, the balance of power was in the favor of Sith characters.

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The Sith specified that the Orbs were only intended to stun - yet Kira called that these Orbs killed his Jedi opponent, which was completely contradictory to what the Sith intended in his roleplay post.

That sounds like the one with Okuma versus some Jedi I forgot the name to. That was a total bust on Kira's part.

Shocked My, it looks like we are pouncing on Kira, doesn't it?
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PostSubject: Re: Electric Judgment   Electric Judgment - Page 3 Icon_minitimeSun Dec 21, 2008 4:53 pm

If we are going to blame the mods for the strength of certain powers, you still can't blame it wholly on Kira. As I said, Lightning was already that powerful before Kira ever became mod...and the mods on Jedi/Sith were hardly dictators. In the early days of when I was here, the mods would make final calls in disputes, but as time went on, DM and Kain both tried to back away from making judgments on the game aspect of it, preferring to submit any rule changes/disputes to a majority vote/discussion rather than ultimately making the final call. I rather liked it that way. That is also how Kira started out as a moderator; she was around to perform the usual mod duties, not to act as a judge. She wanted to keep it that way, and that's how it was for the time that I was still around. I gather from what you are saying that she had to change her stance on that, but I doubt it was because that was something she wanted to do--I think it's more likely that she had to out of necessity.

Anyways, getting back to my original point, it wasn't Kira's place to revamp the rules when she became mod. Even after she started taking a more active role as a moderator, it still wouldn't have been her place to arbitrarily make changes. It's the forum members' responsibility to pick up on things that they don't like and lobby for a change. At the time that I was here, there were no complaints about Lightning's power, nor about the supposed bias toward the Sith, so why would Kira think there any need for a change to the rules? It likely would have been opposed by many at that point in time, and it wouldn't be right for Kira to change the rules because she thought it was better that way, even if she agreed with you.

Like I said, I'm not gonna debate specific calls she made with you, because I was not there. But I can certainly defend general faults (as you perceive them) of hers.

Richter Belmont wrote:
Shocked My, it looks like we are pouncing on Kira, doesn't it?

Yes, which is mostly why I'm here defending her. If you guys have an axe to grind against Kira, fine, take it up with her...or at least keep it within private conversation. Otherwise, it just looks like you guys are trying to smear her while she's not around to defend herself. Why bring up ancient history on an open forum otherwise? Kira hasn't been mod in at least a year and a half.
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Trever Leingod

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PostSubject: Re: Electric Judgment   Electric Judgment - Page 3 Icon_minitimeSun Dec 21, 2008 6:54 pm

white lancer wrote:
If we are going to blame the mods for the strength of certain powers, you still can't blame it wholly on Kira. As I said, Lightning was already that powerful before Kira ever became mod...and the mods on Jedi/Sith were hardly dictators.

As I recall, Tiger's Eye was Kira (so I was told - but then again, I also was told DM was Kira too and I can't keep up with the million aliases anymore), and Tiger's Eye was the first mod of J/S (I was here when the forum switched over from the Obi-Wan forum too). I don't remember the rule being around then but it apparently was invented sometime between mid-2003 and late-2006, hence it's most likely lifespan. Kira was responsible as mod for any quasi-rules to be laid in firm cement on the Jedi/Sith forum rules. From Summer 2005 on, I saw complaint after complaint issued against Force Lightning's power (except from those by whom the victory was decided upon by such overpowering) until it was finally eradicated in Fall 2006.

Another thing I recall, Septerra saying once while arguing with Mark's protest to Kira about her decisions, much like the one he sorta started here: "The moderators here do not allow a democracy here, it's a dictatorship." Apparently some other members don't follow you. Neutral Kira and Kain usually made decisions on their own beliefs and a lot less on the rules, as I was around during most of their rule. I enjoyed DM's rule much better, to be honest.

white lancer wrote:
In the early days of when I was here, the mods would make final calls in disputes, but as time went on, DM and Kain both tried to back away from making judgments on the game aspect of it, preferring to submit any rule changes/disputes to a majority vote/discussion rather than ultimately making the final call. I rather liked it that way. That is also how Kira started out as a moderator; she was around to perform the usual mod duties, not to act as a judge. She wanted to keep it that way, and that's how it was for the time that I was still around. I gather from what you are saying that she had to change her stance on that, but I doubt it was because that was something she wanted to do--I think it's more likely that she had to out of necessity.

By July 2005, her opinion on that "democratic call" definitely changed. I never remember seeing that with J/S mods. If it had been, many of the disputed calls probably wouldn't have happened. I doubt she had to do out of necessity because they were plenty of members around from that time span. *nod*

white lancer wrote:
Anyways, getting back to my original point, it wasn't Kira's place to revamp the rules when she became mod. Even after she started taking a more active role as a moderator, it still wouldn't have been her place to arbitrarily make changes. It's the forum members' responsibility to pick up on things that they don't like and lobby for a change. At the time that I was here, there were no complaints about Lightning's power, nor about the supposed bias toward the Sith, so why would Kira think there any need for a change to the rules? It likely would have been opposed by many at that point in time, and it wouldn't be right for Kira to change the rules because she thought it was better that way, even if she agreed with you.

Apparently, she revamped the rules on other things and not setting quasi-rules right. You have certainly responsibilities as mod, and she just picked and chose which she would take. And like we've said so many times already, they were so many complaints about Lightning's overpowering it wasn't even funny. If it isn't the mod's place, how is it a forum member's place to make a rule chart and change it whenever he/she felt like?

white lancer wrote:
Like I said, I'm not gonna debate specific calls she made with you, because I was not there. But I can certainly defend general faults (as you perceive them) of hers.

Didn't really make them with me, per se, but I did oppose her on most of those calls. Twisted Evil

Richter Belmont wrote:
Shocked My, it looks like we are pouncing on Kira, doesn't it?

I'm certainly not. I liked her as a person and a character but I did not agree with everything she did. No

Richter Belmont wrote:
That sounds like the one with Okuma versus some Jedi I forgot the name to. That was a total bust on Kira's part.

Don't recall the name. The RPer acted a bit n00bish but he didn't lose fairly IMO. Suspect

white lancer wrote:
I'm not going to debate you on the one match you are talking about because 1. I wasn't there and haven't seen the post in question and 2. I have only heard one side of the issue. Your description does seem a little strange but I can't make a call like that without seeing the post.

I don't see how you can see it any different than we did if you saw it (not that we have it, it happened years ago). Just look at it like this - how Kira's doctrine on Force Lightning allow any Sith to use it whenever and it kills on contact without any power specification or charging (as per the rules now) whatsoever, but when a Sith very clearly specifies that his Force Orbs are intended to stun the victim, how then can the target be killed on contact when the person these Orbs originated from specified they would not kill the target? If you can't understand how wrong that is... meh.

white lancer wrote:
Yes, which is mostly why I'm here defending her. If you guys have an axe to grind against Kira, fine, take it up with her...or at least keep it within private conversation. Otherwise, it just looks like you guys are trying to smear her while she's not around to defend herself. Why bring up ancient history on an open forum otherwise? Kira hasn't been mod in at least a year and a half.

I would, definitely, but she's not around. Besides, her defenses were usually sort... lacking. Practically just saying the power was hers and all that, and that she was still being fair (which she wasn't every time) with her decisions, even though numerous ones were based on either self-made or quasi-rules, which isn't fair to people who missed out on the making of those rules, especially when most of the time, they seemed made up on the spot. I was around quite a lot during her rule, yet I was constantly seeing new quasi-rules appear out of nowhere and be used to judge a fight. scratch

I believe the point to this topic on Kira was that we need a new mod when GT comes back.


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PostSubject: Re: Electric Judgment   Electric Judgment - Page 3 Icon_minitimeSun Dec 21, 2008 7:51 pm

I'm not even sure why I bother, since you certainly don't seem to be willing to back off your attacks on Kira, but here goes.

Forgotten Jedi wrote:
As I recall, Tiger's Eye was Kira (so I was told - but then again, I also was told DM was Kira too and I can't keep up with the million aliases anymore), and Tiger's Eye was the first mod of J/S (I was here when the forum switched over from the Obi-Wan forum too). I don't remember the rule being around then but it apparently was invented sometime between mid-2003 and late-2006, hence it's most likely lifespan. Kira was responsible as mod for any quasi-rules to be laid in firm cement on the Jedi/Sith forum rules. From Summer 2005 on, I saw complaint after complaint issued against Force Lightning's power (except from those by whom the victory was decided upon by such overpowering) until it was finally eradicated in Fall 2006.

Another thing I recall, Septerra saying once while arguing with Mark's protest to Kira about her decisions, much like the one he sorta started here: "The moderators here do not allow a democracy here, it's a dictatorship." Apparently some other members don't follow you. Neutral Kira and Kain usually made decisions on their own beliefs and a lot less on the rules, as I was around during most of their rule. I enjoyed DM's rule much better, to be honest.

Yes, Tiger's Eye was Kira, but DM most certainly was not. And regardless about when the rule was originally invented, the fact remains that for that period of time no one had a problem with that rule. That's why Kira accepted it as a rule. When I was around during the time of Kira's modship, she made very few, if any, decisions in arguments, because she was following DM's example near the end of her reign. I have to take your word for it that her stance on modship changed because I was not around during that period. However, I don't see why you have to spout off your opinions on how horrible and biased and all-around evil Kira was on an open forum, especially when Kira is not around to defend herself.

Quote :
By July 2005, her opinion on that "democratic call" definitely changed. I never remember seeing that with J/S mods. If it had been, many of the disputed calls probably wouldn't have happened. I doubt she had to do out of necessity because they were plenty of members around from that time span. *nod*

By "necessity" I meant that she perhaps had to step in because members were unable to resolve the dispute on their own. I was still around July 2005, and I don't remember her becoming any more of a dictator than she was at the start of her "reign." That was still relatively early in her time as mod, though. But if you've never seen any of the J/S moderators ask for the forum members' opinions on an issue, your "off and on" was a lot more "off" than it was "on," because that happened quite a bit.

Quote :
Apparently, she revamped the rules on other things and not setting quasi-rules right. You have certainly responsibilities as mod, and she just picked and choosed which she would take. And like we've said so many times already, they were so many complaints about Lightning's overpowering it wasn't even funny. If it isn't the mod's place, how is it a forum member's place to make a rule chart and change it whenever he/she felt like? Evil or Very Mad No.

Like I said, I have to take your word for it that there were numerous complaints about Lightning at the time you are talking about. I never denied that. I said there were no complaints at the time that I was here. As for the mod's powers, well, that's questionable. We never settled on exactly how much power a mod had on J/S because an RP forum is different from a game forum in that there are going to be disputes. Some people thought that the mod should have only the responsibilities that mods on other forums had--i.e. getting rid of spam, profanity, etc. Others thought the mod should resolve each and every dispute that came up. I tended to lean towards the former--after all, why should one person get to dictate the rules of the RP? If people like you didn't rely on a mod to do that, we wouldn't be having this argument in the first place, because Kira and Kain would not have been making calls like that.

I'm not sure what you are talking about with her revamping the rules, because she kept pretty much all of them intact while I was here. She did change the rule site, but that was making updates to the website...updates that had been decided upon by the forum because some people had problems with the rules. A perfect example would be the attacking of Sanctuaries. When I first got here if a Jedi were in a Jedi Enclave he couldn't be attacked, but someone (I think it was Bandit) raised that as an issue, and after discussion amongst the forum-goers, we decided to repeal that rule. It wasn't an arbitrary decision by the mod, it was a decision by the forum-goers. That's what I mean by it being the forum members' responsibility. If you guys didn't like the Lightning rule, that's what you should have done...and apparently she wasn't as much of a dictator as you make her out to be, if the rule did get repealed.

Quote :
Didn't really make them with me, per se, but I did oppose her on most of those calls. Twisted Evil

I meant I wasn't going to debate the calls with you, not that she made the calls with you. Razz

Quote :
I'm certainly not. I liked her as a person and a character but she did not moderate well. No

You certainly don't give that impression, since you seem to be trying to lay all of the forum's ills at her feet. I suggest she has partial blame, you say no, it's all her fault. Sounds like you have an axe to grind against her.

Quote :
I don't see how you can see it any different than we did if you saw it (not that we have it, it happened years ago). Just look at it like this - how Kira's doctrine on Force Lightning allow any Sith to use it whenever and it kills on contact without any power specification or charging (as per the rules now) whatsoever, but when a Sith very clearly specifies that his Force Orbs are intended to stun the victim, how then can the target be killed on contact when the person these Orbs originated from specified they would not kill the target? If you can't understand how wrong that is, with all due respect to you as an RPer and friend Lancer, your logic is flawed. silent

I would have to see a post and hear her side of the argument before I would take any sort of side on a specific case, because with all due respect, I can't be sure if you are really saying all that needs to be said. I'm not questioning your honesty, but even the most honest person has a tendency to twist their recounting of an issue when they are trying to make an argument. Oftentimes it's not even deliberate; for instance, that is the way you see the post, and that's the way you have thought of this post for years, so that has become the way you remember it. What's to say you haven't forgotten a crucial detail, or that Kira saw something you missed?

I think the idea of orbs being able to be turned to "stun" is ridiculous, anyways. It's not like it's a blaster. scratch

Quote :
I would, definitely, but she's not around.

Exactly. She's not around, thus she can't defend herself against what you say, which is why I wish you would leave your gossip to private conversation. You could make all sorts of wild allegations against her (and I'm not saying there's no truth behind what you are saying) and we would have to just accept what you say, because we weren't there and don't have first-hand knowledge. I believe that you think everything you are saying is the gospel truth, but the fact is that we only know one side of the story. Anything can be made to sound ridiculous or evil when you are only telling one side of the story--just look at Michael Moore documentaries. Sicko was a very persuasive film that made the other side of the argument seem entirely childish, ridiculous, and greedy, as if there were few people who would take that side at all. Yet not only are there legitimate arguments on the other side, there are millions of people who subscribe to that point of view. It's the same thing here. Your statements might seem almost like an airtight case that Kira was brain-damaged, but who's to say she didn't have rationale behind her calls? Who's to say that she didn't make an argument that you just don't remember, or that you missed completely? Hate Kira if you must, but I'd appreciate it if you would keep your dislike for her private.

Quote :
They mostly sided with the Sith characters (or so it seemed due to the Jedi-to-Sith death ratio being about 3 to 1), and both were Sith, so it implies (whether honestly or not) that they both had a bit of bias.

The fact that the Jedi-to-Sith death ratio seemed to be nearly 3-to-1 (I doubt you have statistics) does not in of itself mean that there was inherent bias in Kira and Kain--perhaps the Sith merely had better cases the majority of the time, or perhaps the Sith were just better than the Jedi. I'm not saying that Kira wasn't biased at all, but I knew her well enough to know that she would at least try to keep her bias out of her decisions. It would be difficult for anyone to do so completely, however...but that's another reason why she (at least at the beginning of her time as mod) and DM/Kain (at the end of their time as mod) tried to avoid being the judge of disputes--because they wanted to be able to RP, not just watch, and they didn't want their character's interest to cause them to lose objectivity.

Quote :
Plus, there are a lot of pro-Sith people (the ones that in RL mostly control Sith characters) who are jerkoffs OOC. I am not specifying any, and not generalizing either - I met a lot of people with Sith characters who are very friendly, but the ones who tend to have only Sith characters are jerkoffs, hence their true personality showing through in their butthole characters. Laughing

...you say you're not generalizing, but then you slam all of those who tend to have only Sith characters? Whatever. Razz Even though it does make sense that Sith-style people would be, as you put it, "jerkoffs." Wink
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PostSubject: Re: Electric Judgment   Electric Judgment - Page 3 Icon_minitimeSun Dec 21, 2008 8:22 pm

Ok, I think the whole Kira argument has gone on long enough. No matter what they did in the past, continuing a rant about it now is pretty pointless and disrespectful no matter who it is you're talking about. Have whatever opinion you want about people, that's your right. Expressing your ill opinion on an open forum seems more like flaming to me so end here.

As for the restrictions on powers, you can go to the wetpaint page made by Belial for details on the powers. While we are here, and hopefully whenever we go back to GT, rules will be set, as Lancer has said, forum based. If there is a problem then make a topic and we, the forum as a whole, will try and agree to a change. But please, just leave past events in the past.

If you want the wetpaint page then here it is. http://jedsith.wetpaint.com/
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PostSubject: Re: Electric Judgment   Electric Judgment - Page 3 Icon_minitimeMon Dec 22, 2008 11:16 am

Look, before we close up this topic as Terand has requested, there a few things I want to make clear. I will afterward ignore this particular topic on Kira. Surprised

I do not hate Kira, for as a person and character (despite the fact we clashed blades quite a bit Laughing ) I am quite fond of her. She was not an awful mod but she was not a great one either. I am not attacking her - personal attacks on someone not around are lame - I am making a point of what Mark said. I have no "axe to grind" with her. These are personal opinions on her faulty decisions - yes, she made good decisions in her time. What a Face I realize most of what I have said about her was negative, but as I cannot add inflection and tone into my posts, you probably cannot realize this topic (for me) is one more of concern that hatred at our former mod. Embarassed I certainly will not blame all of her problems at her feet - what I will blame is how she was so easily influenced by the less passive (people like you and me who tend to not to get into nasty, truly hated-filled topics) and how she let them rule her own mind to some degree. pale

I did see Kira ask members' opinions quite frequently (though not exactly the way you described it), but there were times when these members were biased for a certain person (mostly because they attachments to said person OOC) and she went along with these biases, and other times when non-biased were ignored - if she was able to make a decision on her own, she never changed it, no matter how many people or how logical an argument was raised. I realize being a mod of this place was tough, since she did not have complete control over it, but a lot of people looked to her to lead with rules and such and she didn't make an effort to do that. What I (and numerous others) expected her to do was not to dictate, but to lead. Write up quasi-rules and such. Most people didn't dare write them down because they thought they would be overstepping or they would be ignored by the people and the mod. Some people actually openly preferred dictatorship, and that was what probably ruined Kira's chance to shine as a democractic mod. No In other words, there were a lot of rants against rules that were opposed, but it was by few people and most others who didn't seem phased by these rules ignored the topic.

According to my memory (apparently Richter remembers too), Kira made that particular call specifically against what the Sith specifically stated. Yes, it was possible to charge up or power down Force Orbs, just like with Force Lightning. Most of the forum found this call appalling but didn't bother standing up to her decision because they didn't feel like arguing over someone they didn't care about, and naturally the victor wouldn't point out something that would keep him from his victory.

Yes, I will admit that the Sith had better fighters than the Jedi for the most part. But it could seem suspicious to some. But the fact that there were Sith defeats shows she was not entirely for the Sith alone.

No, I am not generalizing entirely, only partially, on that matter, Lancer. lol! It is true, though, that most people who control only Sith are quite keen to attack hatefully the other people who don't get in line when slapped. Razz

Like I have said already, this was not an attack on Kira - have you seen any "she's an idiot/fool/moron"? No. Neutral That's a hate rant. I do not issue hate rants. Like you Lancer, I try to mediate calmly. Very Happy The point I was (can't speak for the others) trying to get across here is what Kira messed up on and what the next mod should and should not do. I'm all for the" democratic-monarchy" type moderation and I hope it continues. Cool

Peace to all, and sorry to Terand, Ashaiya, Lancer and/or whoever else thought this was a hate rant. It was not intended to be, nor (if you look at right) was it. Good day to all. lol!
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Richter Belmont

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PostSubject: Re: Electric Judgment   Electric Judgment - Page 3 Icon_minitimeMon Dec 22, 2008 3:06 pm

Well lad, that was an excellent ending. Wink

None of us here have any business hating the good lass Kira, and there is no chap or lass that has said so in any way. What has been put to the test somehow along this Electric Judgement debate was whether was Kira's myriad of at least questionable decisions. We have had Mark bring up some points and there have been others to back up those points as direct witnesses. It cannot be denied that whatever was brought up happened, and the details of such either. I had nothing to do with the people that were under fire in those decisions in question, but nonetheless I too have shown my strenuous disagreements on said happenings.

We all like Kira as a person, no question, but there were many times I, for one among many, had personally questioned decisions that Kira, thus doubting her ability to moderate on the level that was needed. I think now she would be capable of that in her maturing age, but back then I believe she was not. As said, she was not a terrible mod, but she could have been a lot better in a general sense.

To say the point again, this was no rant, but a debate not meaning to smear anyone's reputation. Points were concise and clarified on what was questioned, and that is all.

Now I shall take my leave on this, at least on the point of Kira.
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PostSubject: Re: Electric Judgment   Electric Judgment - Page 3 Icon_minitimeMon Dec 22, 2008 4:49 pm

It is good to hear that you don't have anything personal against Kira, and that you acknowledge that she made good decisions in her time and that some other problems that occurred during that time were outside of her control. I am truly sorry for misconstruing your intentions in this debate, but I hope you can at least see how I would get such an impression; when you use words like "retarded" and "sucked" and refer to her "losing it" and her "flawed mod brain," it can definitely seem like an attack, especially since, as you said, Wind, it can be difficult to gauge someone's tone over the internet. I know now that you didn't intend for those phrases to sound as harsh as they did, nor were you trying to blame all of the forum's ills upon her, and I apologize once again for believing that of you.

I will say also that I am definitely not closed to the possibility that Kira made some faulty calls in her day, potentially on the very issues that you mentioned; in fact, I very much doubt that she (or anyone, for that matter) could have been a perfect mod, and I hope that much was clear in that I avoided debating those specific issues and instead focused on the perceived attacks. Nor was I intending to question your honesty in what I was saying. It may be that had I been around at the time in which the aforementioned disputes took place, I would have sided with you, but there is no way of knowing. It's all water under the bridge now, and I believe that's where it should stay.

I believe that we can all agree that setting a moderator's responsibilities and power on a forum should be of a high priority and that a certain level of democracy is in order...and out of respect for Terand's request, I will leave it at that. Wink

Man...it's been far too long since I have had a good RP. No I can't even remember the last time... Crying or Very sad
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Trever Leingod

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PostSubject: Re: Electric Judgment   Electric Judgment - Page 3 Icon_minitimeTue Dec 23, 2008 9:59 am

white lancer wrote:
It is good to hear that you don't have anything personal against Kira, and that you acknowledge that she made good decisions in her time and that some other problems that occurred during that time were outside of her control. I am truly sorry for misconstruing your intentions in this debate, but I hope you can at least see how I would get such an impression; when you use words like "retarded" and "sucked" and refer to her "losing it" and her "flawed mod brain," it can definitely seem like an attack, especially since, as you said, Wind, it can be difficult to gauge someone's tone over the internet. I know now that you didn't intend for those phrases to sound as harsh as they did, nor were you trying to blame all of the forum's ills upon her, and I apologize once again for believing that of you.

I am glad you understand, for I also understand your point of view. I realize those words I said do seem a bit harsh. I suppose I harbor some resentment at Kira for disagreeing with everything I ever debated with her in her time as mod, but we were friends before that, and so the fun times I had with her still rings in my brain so much that I cannot really hate her for any mistakes she made.

Quote :
I will say also that I am definitely not closed to the possibility that Kira made some faulty calls in her day, potentially on the very issues that you mentioned; in fact, I very much doubt that she (or anyone, for that matter) could have been a perfect mod, and I hope that much was clear in that I avoided debating those specific issues and instead focused on the perceived attacks. Nor was I intending to question your honesty in what I was saying. It may be that had I been around at the time in which the aforementioned disputes took place, I would have sided with you, but there is no way of knowing. It's all water under the bridge now, and I believe that's where it should stay.

You are right, of course. I trust you to understand - you have always shown a tendency for understanding, calmness and friendliness. Wink So it should be water under the bridge. Considering all she had to do here, she didn't do all that bad. I have seen near perfect mods, but then, they didn't have a forum quite like ours.

Quote :
I believe that we can all agree that setting a moderator's responsibilities and power on a forum should be of a high priority and that a certain level of democracy is in order...and out of respect for Terand's request, I will leave it at that. Wink

Yeah, let's try to help our next mod do just that. Very Happy

Quote :
Man...it's been far too long since I have had a good RP. No I can't even remember the last time... Crying or Very sad

Hey, let's try one out then, soon. Wink

Alright, back the real subject here - Force powers. I am kind of intrigued by the new things in Force Unleashed. I wonder if we should add Lightning Shield and Force Repulsion to the list of powers. Both seem pretty fair (naturally, if they have limits) and in pretty much in line with most Force powers we currently use. Lightning Shield is kind of like Force Storm (if I remember right, it's a lot of Force Lightning) and Force Repulsion is like an all-around-radius Force Push. What do you guys think? Cool
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PostSubject: Re: Electric Judgment   Electric Judgment - Page 3 Icon_minitimeTue Dec 23, 2008 12:14 pm

I believe the subject on adding new powers would be best made as a new topic.
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PostSubject: Re: Electric Judgment   Electric Judgment - Page 3 Icon_minitimeWed Dec 24, 2008 10:16 pm

Forgotten Jedi wrote:
You are right, of course. I trust you to understand - you have always shown a tendency for understanding, calmness and friendliness. Wink So it should be water under the bridge.

Thanks, but you give me too much credit. Razz I usually get heated to some degree during a debate, but depending on the topic and who I'm debating sometimes I can really steam about something. But the good thing is that after the debate is over, so is the conflict. Smile
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Richter Belmont

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PostSubject: Re: Electric Judgment   Electric Judgment - Page 3 Icon_minitimeSat Dec 27, 2008 5:55 pm

There should not be any steam as long as it does not reach a personal level eh?
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